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File: 1550207601671.jpg (101.13 KB, 680x680, 1298682821828.jpg)

4e139 No.204755

So I started out anti illegal immigration. It takes jobs away from Americans and reduces those American's ability to support their family. But I've changed my opinion.

In my area in Canada we don't have illegal employees. There's no place to go and hire ((undocumented)) ppl. To get a job you need to prove status. Maybe some middle Eastern shwarma store might hire a family member but they have to eat that unclaimed wage in tax. Long story short the issue I'm about to present is "if America deported all illegals and forced business to hire legally entitled to work individuals"

I'm making some assumptions about your mexicans here.
1) they work in food/construction.
2) they get paid less than market value.
3) legal control does not impact them. (Min wage)

My area just recently finished a min wage wage hike from 11 to $15 an hour. They made this decision on data from America where raises didn't impact much.

In 2 months we lost 60k jobs, and McDonald's combos went up $3. It literally just shifted the numbers up $4 and caused a labour shortage. Everything in daily commodities from places that hired cheap labour has gone up. To the point where it's ridiculous. Milk even went up a $1.

Why does a min wage boost work in America? Illegals create a buffer. A class of ppl paid less than market value allow citizens the boon of cheap goods. It's basically slavery and as long as you're not in slave industries you'll benefit. Just don't be a cotton picker.

In a system without illegals any laws attempting to make cost floors (min-wage) improvements instantly cause loss of purchasing power. Removing illegals will force employment of legals, bringing min wage Dynamics and huge cost increases to your ability to live. Construction, grocery and food service costs will spike and your pay will be the same. Your life will suffer and the government won't be able to fix it.

4e139 No.204757

If you got a Mexican depreciating your market value in skilled labour call ICE on them, but if they stay in min wage jobs let them be, get a skill. If your kid can't get a job at taco Bell go over and say give my kid a job or I'll call an ice raid. But otherwise, take the boons of slavery while you have them. Otherwise you'll have to constantly be calling for 5k raises in your field. EMTs make barely more than min wage here now because it's so fucked.

9ad20 No.204758

>reduced labor costs are worth the social and cultural cost of flooding your cities with wetbacks who don't speak English and shit up every neighborhood they set foot in
Fuck off, neocon.

4e139 No.204760

>>204758
Ah so it's cultural for you. Is it worth the money? I don't know what the going discount is for construction workers illegal vs legal. But if all your construction infrastructure costs went up 20% in the state, they would have to either move spending from other services or raise taxes.

I do understand the culture complaint but I mean you're still gonna have blacks fucking up your cities.

Is taking the equivalent of a huge salary cut worth it? What percentage of your income can you lose (through buying the same amount of things for more) before your job can't handle your life?

8e0ce No.204761

>>204755
>In my area in Canada we don't have illegal employees
That's evident from your overall position which is naive at best.
Its not just an issue of jobs, though there is that. For the US at least, its an issue of the illegals themselves, but more onerously is their families and children, which if you haven't hear mexicans are like a slip-n-slide where give it a minute, there'll be another kid sliding out before you know it. Those kids justify all sorts of government gibs, lower the standard of education in schools, and since such illegals (by virtue of their illegality) tend to concentrate in areas, will lower the property value and engage in far worse identity politics than all but the most heinous lefties.

9f443 No.204762

So you're saying that we need ethnic replacement to ameliorate the stupidity of socialism?

This argument is actually retarded.

097bd No.204763

>>204755
You are right, but >>204758 has a point. Most people don't want immigrants because of the threat they present to a homogeneous culture. Also the goal of immigrants isn't to toil in shitsville forever. The next generation or two of theirs will be legals and will move up to compete for better jobs and a better life.

Here in Georgia we banned and enforced a ban on hiring of illegals for certain jobs. Turns out nobody wanted to do those jobs and the state had to start using convicts to stem the labor shotfall.

4e139 No.204764

>>204761
Well if they illegal they shouldn't get gibs, I'd fight for that over deporting. In addition no citizenship for kids unless their parents are citizens.

In your current set up citizens can still gain net worth. In our set up paramedics make min wage. Save up net worth and move somewhere white where immigrants need a university degree.

9507c No.204765

File: 1550209897343.gif (477.83 KB, 500x378, What repeating the same st….gif)

>>204763
>Turns out nobody wanted to do those jobs
Yes. It is the same tale everywhere.
But by simple free market's rules (offer and demand), if there is labor shortage then the salaries would go high enough to make them attractive.
Injecting foreigners laborers, convicts, or another form of slaves, only poisons (or regulate) the free market. And in the end this intervention hurts the lower income folks, pushing them to welfare programs or other forms of assistance paid by the rest.

4e139 No.204767

>>204765
The service follows the same rules of supply and demand as the employment. If your labor to complete a project charges more, and you can't profit off the service and can't cover it you have to raise the service's price or not provide the service.

Raising the price of the service forces the service to receive less demand. Fine and good if it's a luxury like maid service. But an essential service reduces your purchasing power because you still have to buy it. Either through you spending more, or the government spending more.

4e139 No.204768

>>204767
The price also goes up if they decide not to provide the service because supply drops. Soz double post.

8e0ce No.204770

>>204764
Your lack of understanding is stunning.
Of COURSE they shouldn't get gibs by all legitimacy. Tell that to the major cities in many states that vote for them, or vote for politicians who will grant them, primarily so they can get more votes. Same with childhood citizenship.
Additionally Seattle, WA voted their minimum wage up to $15/hour (and we're talking US dollars) which is having inflationary effects on the whole state.
Are you really that ignorant to US politics or are you just trolling?

4e139 No.204771

>>204770
>Whole state
Whole country - it impacts the whole country and any other USD based economy.

I'm probably that ignorant. But there's no denying, at the moment you guys have a huge inflation suppression caused by the illegals. The only possible way America can get out of a huge economic collapse caused by removing all illegals would be not raising min wage in knee jerk when everyone's purchasing power goes down some unknown value around $10,000. And literally every state has to not fuck that up. Otherwise bread's gonna be $10 in 2 years after the illegals go.

8e0ce No.204772

>>204771
I would love for you to qualify any of these positions and predictions

e400b No.204774

>>204755
Alright, there are a number of problems with this

The biggest problem is that it completely ignores the fact that illegal aliens use vast amounts of government services. Illegal aliens don't make enough money to pay for their own medical services. If they end up in an emergency room or a maternity ward, the tax payers will be paying for them. Speaking of maternity wards, illegals have large numbers of children. On average, new immigrants have one new child within 5 years of arriving, and in any event tend to have three or more. All of these children will require public schools to educate them, which costs thousands of dollars. If they require additional schooling in the English language, that is thousands more. If they are autistic or have any special needs, that will be on the tax payer. Any child born of an illegal in the United States is automatically a citizen, and therefore entitled to medicaid, which is thousands more in tax payer funds. While illegal aliens will file taxes with fake or stolen social security numbers, they don't make enough money to actually pay anything in. In fact, they are more likely to be net beneficiaries of a sort of negative income tax. This is all of course besides the cases where illegal aliens or their children directly benefit from food stamps or other direct government welfare. The only people who benefit from illegal aliens in the US are the businesses who hget cheaper labor. The rest of America has to pay for the healthcare and education of illegal aliens and their inordinate number of children.

Second, you cannot ignore the cultural impact of immigration. In places like Los Angeles, the majority of residents do not speak English in their homes. The United States as a whole has as many non-white births a year as white births, and states like Texas already have as many non-whites living in them as whites. It's not pleasant to have an identity of texas as men in cowboy hats, or Kentucky, or Arizona, or where ever, and have your distinct American culture replaced with the lower class rejects of Honduras and the poorer parts of Mexico. In Canada, you can ignore this, because the country is still mostly European, and the immigrants that are there are mostly higher class. When vast numbers of immigrants enter from the same few Latin American cultures, did not finish high school, and make up a third of the population or more in cities, then it is impossible to escape.

Thirdly, you are not just in equating a wage floor with an increase in the market price of labor caused by a decrease in the supply of the lowest skilled labor. Cutting off illegal immigration would not cause such a drastic increase in price or wages as more than doubling the minimum wage. Further, rather than setting an arbitrary floor at the very bottom of the skill pyramid, reducing the number of illegal aliens should also have at least some direct effect on the slightly higher skilled and more expensive areas of labor, allowing for a natural increase in wages for those categories as well. Most importantly of all, there would not be a glut of people who want jobs but cannot find them because of an artificial job shortage
>We lost 60k jobs
Well yes, that will happen if you create an arbitrary wage floor. But if you have an increase in wages caused by 100k illegals being deported, and that results in 60k slave-labor jobs that never needed to exist being cut, natives have still netted the equivalent of 40k jobs.

>A class of ppl paid less than market value allow citizens the boon of cheap goods

I've said this already, but I will say it again for emphasis: citizens pay the price of english-as-a-second language classes, welfare, medicaid, jail space, and all of the other services these "slaves" consume

You also make these assumptions that I think are unreliable
>they get paid less than market value.
>legal control does not impact them.
I'm sure these are true of some illegals, but the general rule is that the government agencies that enforce wages and the like do not also enforce immigration, so illegals can complain of exploitation without necessarily being deported for it. It's probably part of the reason illegals file taxes (not that they pay anything in net), because It's worse to have the IRS hunting you than ICE.

Another thing you need to take into account is that in the US, thanks to Urbanization and the depopulation of the Rust Belt, many of the cities are becoming overpopulated as it is. The price of housing is going up, and the roads are overcrowded. Increasing the number of illegals means increasing the demand for housing and the number of vehicles on the road. So bringing in more illegals means an increase in the price of housing and more traffic. Illegals also love to drink and drive, so the roads are less safe as well.

The most important thing that you are missing is voting. Yes, illegal aliens cannot legally vote in the United States. But they may well vote illegally. Certainly, their children - which they have plenty of - will be able to vote. If an illegal marries a US citizen, they can ultimately become a citizen and vote. And if they are amnestied, then they will be able to vote. And when they do vote, I promise you they will not vote libertarian and for lower minimum wages and services. They will vote for more healthcare, more gimmes, a higher minimum wage, and you may end up with everything you wanted to avoid in the first place, except now you are a minority in your own country.

4e139 No.204775


4e139 No.204777

>>204774
I really like this reply. At least you referenced my assumptions and pointed out where they may deviate.

I still disagree that their removal will not trigger inflation similar to minimum wage hikes. And that natural increase in wages for higher skilled individuals is called inflation.

I fully agree with their existence causing infrastructure costs increases.

I assumed you just denied health care to illegals if they couldn't pay. I also was unaware of your retarded citizenship laws.

I guess if you're gonna pop an inflation bubble regardless if you remove them you might as well remove them.

My next question would be: would it be better to remove, or if you fixed your social services to bar them, and removed citizenship for births without two citizen parents?

I'd be more worried about your laws in dealing with them than your trying to prevent them from using those laws.

If they couldn't get gibs or citizenship do you think they'd still come?

e400b No.204779

>>204777
>I still disagree that their removal will not trigger inflation similar to minimum wage hikes
Well, actually yes. That's kind of the point of removing them for some people. By that I don't mean that services will be more expensive, I mean a part of the argument is that the American underclass needs a wage increase, and reducing the illegal and legal alien population will help that. Again, I want to reiterate a few things. First, the increase isn't necessarily as drastic as a $15. Maybe it only raises the lowest wage category to $9, $10, or to $12, which would have a much less drastic effect on hiring than a $15 wage floor. Second, the inflation would probably be more spread out. Imagine that a base construction worker cost $10, but an electric cable layer cost $17. If there were a minimum wage hike to $15, then the lowest level construction worker now costs $15, but the electric-cable-layer still costs $17. This makes wage costs for businesses kind of lopsided, while at the same time discourages people from being electric cable layers. What is the point in being more skilled in construction if you make only $2 an hour more in the more skilled positions? If, however, you drove up wages by decreasing the supply of labor, then the wage for a base construction layer goes up from say $10 to $13. But because some of the deportees were cable layers, now that job's wages go up as well from $17 to $19. A smaller increase, but at least it increases as well. The changes in wages, and presumably also the changes in prices, are more spread out, which should be lighter on the economy. The reality is that in the US, the big drivers of inflation are healthcare costs and education costs. And those could actually go down slightly if we deported the aliens who use them but almost never contribute to the supply of these services.

>denied healthcare

If only. You can't turn anyone away from emergency rooms. The bigger drag though is their US citizen children. The US constitution says that those "subject to the Jurisdiction of" the United States have birthright citizenship, and in a footnote of a 1981 (I think?) Supreme Court case called Plyer v Doe, the Supreme Court said that the children of illegal aliens are subject to the jurisdiction of US laws, and thus born citizens. The same Supreme Court case said the State of Texas can't prevent the children of illegal aliens from attending public schools either, there is that law. More recently the state of Texas tried to make it harder to get birth certificates for children of aliens by not accepting certain Mexican documents, but they had to stop that.

>would it be better to remove, or if you fixed your social services to bar them, and removed citizenship for births without two citizen parents

I would prefer simply cutting off the spigot of gimmees and birthright citizenship, and restricting citizenship to those with two Citizen parents would be absolutely divine, but removing all aliens would actually be legally easier. Even though obviously cutting of services is physically easier, there are many impediments to just cutting off aliens. Besides, removed aliens don't commit crimes or disturb the culture of the locale.

>If they couldn't get gibs or citizenship

I could certainly say we'd care less that they do come if they didn't provide the voting base for the Democratic Party. That's really the major impediment to stopping immigration or doing anything about illegal immigration. As for whether they come, I know that many of the Hondurans claim they come to the US to get away from gang violence in their home country. wages in the US would also be higher than in their home countries. But if we aren't paying for their children or having to deal with dumbass politicians that they elect, we don't care as much.

83b1c No.204781

Kick them the fuck out. The cost of the welfare that they leech, the diseases that they bring into this country, and the crime that they foster FAR outweighs any value of them working cheaply.

9507c No.204782

File: 1550218328423.jpg (48.41 KB, 604x398, zlGtgpIVOjc.jpg)

>>204755
>I've gone and flipped from anti illegal immigration to pro illegal immigration.
Spinning around cons and pros is of no use. In plain sight are the results.
Enough time have been wasted, time to prepare for a final fix is due.
RAHOWA.

9ad20 No.204788

>>204782
Rape A Helpless Ostrich Without Assistance? An admirable feat to pull off, but how will it help our people?

76d32 No.204790

>>204788
Nah bro, RApe HOward WAlowitz.

9507c No.204795

File: 1550232493009.png (1.57 MB, 1000x1500, just saying.png)

>>204788
Simple. This whole thread is about to waste time while our people is being dispossessed, playing the jew game of Democracy and dialogue.
My posture is that Whites should be focusing in to accelerate and derail this fake game and to jump to its last stage: war.
The benefits are to terminate an alien tribe ruling gentile's land, demographic restoration, and even economic redistribution.
Immigrants legal and illegal are here to leech and to take over. To wage war against the system and its pets is the only way to repossess the land and the wealth on it. For practical purposes think on to take over foreigners' property as spoils, and the subsequent purge as justice upon traitors and collaborators.
The very fact that everyday more normies are waking up, and kinda being more receptive to a revolutionary White message is promising. It is a matter of adding wills and to help the (((System)))'s collapse when the time is ripe.

9ad20 No.204798

File: 1550234155513.jpeg (8.21 KB, 500x469, bazenger.jpeg)


a3aba No.204861

You know these beaners have children right? Those children grow up and vote for democrats.

eec5e No.204868

File: 1550264903549.jpg (155.68 KB, 2044x2000, jewsevrywhere.jpg)

I am guesing no one explained to you how both major parties are one, the party of Zionism. Forcing you to identify by who you vote for in the last election is a jew tick to keep you believing their lies.

9c46f No.204932

File: 1550275057016.png (732.5 KB, 1280x720, Chancellor_Neighsay_consid….png)

>>204868
>>204755
Think about this scenario; we got rid of ZOG.
Now, if there's any economical concerns over getting rid of illegal immigration.
Let's go for something like Japan's new model.

https://youtu.be/GrsjY9NJSbI

If we can't get rid of ZOG for the time being, then the best is to just shutdown illegal immigration.

eec5e No.205010

File: 1550286702333.png (1.91 MB, 3507x2481, 1491154853820.png)

>Getting rid of ZOG
You know there is only one way. The complete obliteration of Zionism and Israel, Including their christian sympathizers.



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